Gay Marriage - Bush-Cheney/Kerry-Edwards Debates

What the Local Hate Radio "Spinmasters" can't spin away or spin as a hateful dialogue
about this subject ! Gay Marriage and Edwards Attendance Record

Ifill: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

    I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

    Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

    Cheney: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.

    That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.

    Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.

    In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of - the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.

    Cheney: And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.

    Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

    Ifill: Senator Edwards, 90 seconds.

    Edwards: Yes. Let me say first, on an issue that the vice president said in his last answer before we got to this question, talking about tax policy, the country needs to know that under what they have put in place and want to put in place, a millionaire sitting by their swimming pool, collecting their statements to see how much money they're making, make their money from dividends, pays a lower tax rate than the men and women who are receiving paychecks for serving on the ground in Iraq.

    Edwards: Now, they may think that's right. John Kerry and I do not.

    We don't just value wealth, which they do. We value work in this country. And it is a fundamental value difference between them and us.

    Now, as to this question, let me say first that I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.

    And I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and so does John Kerry.

    I also believe that there should be partnership benefits for gay and lesbian couples in long-term, committed relationships.

    But we should not use the Constitution to divide this country.

    Edwards: No state for the last 200 years has ever had to recognize another state's marriage.

    This is using the Constitution as a political tool, and it's wrong.

    Ifill: New question, but same subject.

    As the vice president mentioned, John Kerry comes from the state of Massachusetts, which has taken as big a step as any state in the union to legalize gay marriage. Yet both you and Senator Kerry say you oppose it.

    Are you trying to have it both ways?

    Edwards: No. I think we've both said the same thing all along.

    We both believe that - and this goes onto the end of what I just talked about - we both believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Edwards: But we also believe that gay and lesbians and gay and lesbian couples, those who have been in long-term relationships, deserve to be treated respectfully, they deserve to have benefits.

    For example, a gay couple now has a very difficult time, one, visiting the other when they're in the hospital, or, for example, if, heaven forbid, one of them were to pass away, they have trouble even arranging the funeral.

    I mean, those are not the kind of things that John Kerry and I believe in. I suspect the vice president himself does not believe in that.

    But we don't - we do believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

    Edwards: And I want to go back, if I can, to the question you just asked, which is this constitutional amendment.

    I want to make sure people understand that the president is proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary.

    Under the law of this country for the last 200 years, no state has been required to recognize another state's marriage.

    Let me just be simple about this. My state of North Carolina would not be required to recognize a marriage from Massachusetts, which you just asked about.

    There is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. It's nothing but a political tool. And it's being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing America on.

    We ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs and what's happening in Iraq, not using an issue to divide this country in a way that's solely for political purposes. It's wrong.

    Ifill: Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds.

    Cheney: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter.

    Cheney: I appreciate that very much.

    Ifill: That's it?

    Cheney: That's it.

    Ifill: OK, then we'll move on to the next question.

source: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/100704X.shtml
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October 6th

Edwards has a lifetime 84.8% voting record in the Senate
Posted by ohioan
Added to homepage Wed Oct 06th 2004, 03:04 PM ET

In last night's debate, Cheney said Edwards has "one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate."
In truth, Edwards has an 84.8% voting record in the Senate. In each of his first four years, he had a perfect or near perfect record:
1999 Cast 371 out of 274 votes for a 99.2% voting record
2000 Cast 298 out of 298 votes for a 100% voting record
2001 Cast 377 out of 380 votes for a 99.2% voting record
2002 Cast 253 out of 253 votes for a 100% voting record
2003 Cast 281 out of 459 votes for a 61.2% voting record
2004 Cast 84 out of 198 votes for a 42.4% voting record
OVERALL Edwards has cast 1664 out of 1962 votes for a 84.8% voting record.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/a_three_se...
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Presidential Debate 3:
Oct. 13, 2004
Tempe, Ariz. (Arizona State University)
Participants: George W. Bush, John Kerry
Moderator: Bob Schieffer, CBS
Topics: All topics

 A transcript of the debate, as transcribed by e-Media Millworks, Inc.:


SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here.

Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question.

Do you believe homosexuality is a choice ?

BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that.

And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live.

And that's to be honored.

But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman.

I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution.

It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution.

I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act.

My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman.

But I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests.

SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

I think we have to respect that.

The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people.

You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth.

Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately.

SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry, a new question for you.